Bill and Fleur - a inappropriate relationship? : harrypotter
Nymphadora Tonks (Harry Potter character) Lupin was 20 when Harry was born so would have been 15 +20 = 35 in OOP which is a difference of 12 years. How old are the elder Weasley boys. 26/27+ so in OOTP Bill is into his thirties dating an eighteen year old girl. It's not that much of a gap. Remus is 13 years older than Tonks, he thought he was too old but it was Mr. The romance of Nymphadora Tonks and Remus Lupin happened, for the most ' It's different,' said Lupin, barely moving his lips and looking suddenly tense.
Had she shrugged it off and made Remus want her, fine! But she cries, and mopes, and begs and makes Remus uncomfortable. This is not okay, nor is it a good example for JKR to be setting for young women to be completely honest. She gets Molly Weasley involved. Remus is being pressured and guilted from two sides to do something he at the very least isn't READY for on top of dangerous order missions and losing his best friend for the second time. None of this is okay.
This is abusive behavior. Let's skip to Deathly Hallows. Alright, they have managed to rope Remus in this relationship, he even marries Tonks. This is not happily married behavior, this is desperation. And this is not normal Remus behavior either. The relationship and the pursuit of said relationship drastically changed both Tonks and Remus' personalities and NOT in a good way. I don't want to blame only Tonks, Remus had his problems and faults too.
Let's remember that both were actually in an ongoing WAR at that time. So, both had done mistakes and you know that Remus also had a complex of not wanting people near him because he thought he was a monster and bla bla everyone knows how Remus hated being Remus. He's so broken inside, that's not actually his fault, but he always rejected help. I like to think that if they would have survived the war, maybe with time they could have settle down and Remus could have been able to recover and self-heal from his monsters and fears thanks to Tonks.
At least, that's what the romantic in me wants to believe! That is a happy ending. I did love seeing Lupin in the Ressurection Stone being younger and happier. But here's a happy ending I would've liked: Couldn'tat least one of them live without being killed: Beatifically September 16th, They probably met when they joined the Order.
I always thought that the two of them officially became a couple after HBP. During the months they got to spend a lot of time together in OotP I think they were both falling for each other, but Tonks came out in the open about it and Remus told her he couldn't be with her.
I don't see either of them loving the other more. Remus did love Tonks, but showed it in a different way.
All through HBP he told her he couldn't be with her because he thought she deserved to be with someone young and less dangerous. He put what he thought was best for her before what he wanted to do. And the coldness was likely about the pregnancy. He was worried about what would happen to the child. They barely had any time with their son! We don't know, for sure, what happened between them, and we probably never will, but if I was guessing, I'd say they had some sort of understanding in OOTP.
When Remus went to run with the wolves, he called time on it, cuing the commencement of her depression. I figure it must have been like that, because they were obviously talking marriage at the end of HBP. Yes I think they loved each other pretty much equally.
I figure his freak out over the pregnancy which must surely have been unplanned was essentially due to his fear for her and their child. Sad Teddy was left orphaned, but he seemed to have had a happy life, so tel est le livre Voldemorts8thHorcrux September 17th,2: Well, Tonks was the daughter of Sirius, his best friends' cousin, so that could've been when they first met, but they certainly met when they both went to the Order. Definitely, the reason he wouldn't marry her at first was because he loved her and didn't want her to become an outcast or soemthing because she married him, and he didn't want any potential babies to carry the curse of the werewolf.
Also, he was too old to her, I think, he seemed much older than her. And because Tonks was kind of Sirius's niece. I think he had called time out as well because Tonks was super depressed spending xmas alone and Remus wasn't exactly your super happy soldier either. Remus still wanted to be with those he loved at xmas time and knowing his nature, he likely went and saw Tonks during xmas break at some point like he visited the werewolf in the hospital who was unknown to him merely because he was lonely and likely because he could cheer him a bit about his werewolfism - and he was always comforting people, Harry, Molly, Hermione, Tonks, Sirius we saw, but it appeared to be his nature.
But spying on the werewolves for a year, likely left him feeling more than ever that his furry little problem could end up in Tonks being harmed - so thus he kept telling her no. I think it helps explain his 'quiet wedding' because he indicated he had said no a million times to Tonks in HBP. When he finally changed his mind and asked her, instead of answering, Tonks probably grabbed his hand and took him directly to the Auror or whoever performs ceremonies and married him immediately perhaps owling Molly to come witness it.
I think Tonks knew that Remus still had reservations after all, none of his 'reasons' had gone away and taking time to plan and put on a wedding would have given him too much time to change his mind.
I don't mean to imply that Tonks was cold in anyway in doing this; she loved Remus with all of her heart and truly was willing to go through any hardship that might arise. That he didn't want her to go through it likely only endeared him to her more. I think her going to the battle in DH was proof of this - thought of life without Remus to her was untenable. She wanted to make sure he would come out alive and she was obviously a skilled Auror and felt she could actually achieve that.
Unfortunately, circumstances didn't allow for it. But she did join him in the afterlife and leave her son in awesome care and he had a happy life. Emmy September 17th,2: I think there's a pretty good chance they knew each other at school because of Sirius, but they probably weren't close and met when Tonks became a member of the Order.
I guess it makes sense that they would be together a bit before Tonks depression, or maybe in that kind of thing where you both like each other but aren't really dating. I don't really know, in general I would have liked if the book had given more detail about how they were as a couple. I suppose I do agree with the general consensus that Remus was still beating himself up for bringing the burden of his being a werewolf to Tonks and his son.
I think the baby was definitely a surprise to both of them, but I also think that part of Lupin's wanting to run off and help fight was selfish. It was good that they did get to have the short time that they did with the baby though. Voldemorts8thHorcrux September 17th,2: I would just like to point this out to those who thought they knew each other in school 8m57w6 September 17th,2: I kind of got off on a thing answering the first, so they're both sort of one big answer.
I also think that it is likely they met when they were much younger, because of their connection through Sirius. However, as Tonks was probably very young at the time, I doubt she would have had any but very vague memories of this. They probably met, as others have said, through the order.
I think Tonks really was completely honest when she said that she didn't care. Remember that as brave and awesome as she is, Tonks was a Hufflepuff. Many people were surprised when Jo revealed this, but I think it's important to her character. She doesn't care at all that he will is shunned, and that she will be too, by extension, because she loves him for who he is, not what he is.
He is a Gryffindor, and we have seen through Harry's actions towards Ginny in HBP that he did not want to put her in any danger, and I believe that Remus was thinking along the same lines. He was being a bit overly noble, a trait of Gryffindor that would likely drive a Hufflepuff crazy. He probably did love her a great deal, and it was this love for her that caused him to pull away from her.
He cared for her so much, and did not want her to end up with the same life that he did. He perhaps thought that by acting coldly toward her she might reconsider, but again, as a Hufflepuff, Tonks would not care.
She would stay loyal to him no matter what she had to deal with; it may be hard for her, but she'd stick with him through everything. I so deperately wanted them to have a happy ending. They both suffered so much, and never really truly go to be the family together that I'm sure both of them wanted. Yes, they were able to be together in death, without the suffering and persecution they had to deal with in life, but they were not able to be with their son.
I know that Jo was showing the horrors of war, and the way they tear lives and families apart, but in my opinion, she showed that well enough through the Potters. I think that it was an unnecessary plot to have them die; Jo even said that they were the two not originally slated to die, and I think she should've left it that way.
I loved them both, Tonks more so than Lupin, but I still did love them, and I really wanted them to be happy. But at least I've always got fanfiction, right?? I saw and rooted for Fluer and Bill even though we saw them little too, we also saw the depth of their relationship. I don't understand where it came from and I honestly don't care where it ended. It felt too surreal I can't imagine them meeting any earlier because Lupin seemed to shy away from people as much as possible as a result of being a werewolf.
I do believe that they loved each other equally, maybe even that Lupin loved Tonks even more than Tonks loved Lupin. Lupin seemed reluctant to get together with Tonks at first and even after they were married he showed guilt and remorse that he had married her and condemned her to a life of being marginalised and shunned because her husband was a werewolf.
It seems to me that he loved her too much not to marry her and then felt guilty afterwards because he couldn't have stopped it if he'd tried. And because of his love for her he didn't want to be the person who caused her to be shunned and ignored by other people. You know that one bemused because a.
Even if both had been gay, I would never, in a million years, have thought they would have been attracted to each other, ever, ever. I always got the impression that Lupin liked amusing, rather fiery, characters.
So in that respect, I thought Tonks fitted the bill perfectly, never thought he would be attracted to a character like Sirius, male or female. I would just like to point this out to those who thought they knew each other in school Rem and Tonks-late twenties by OOTP. Not all that far apart really - but yeah, they were not at Hogwarts together.
However, he could have met her as Sirius' little cousin. That is just speculation though. I believe that they could met long before they became members of the Order new one in War IIbecause she was Sirius cousin and probably they already knew each other. However I also believe that they started to feel something towards each other during the time in the Order.
I think that Tonks realized first and Remus, after he noticed that he felt something before HBP tried to take the feelings of his heart and his mind for some time and kept the feeling to himself.
So, the feeling was there for sometime, but they just showed Tonks depression and Remus resistence just before HBP. I think that Remus loved her as much as she loved him and that's why he tried to prevent her from any kind of pain that being with a werewolf could bring. I believe that the werewolf factor was the only reason not that it was a small and easy one that prevented Remus to go further in his relashionship with Tonks.
I thought the part where Tonks goes, "I couldn't stand not knowing Tonks could not have lived with herself if she knew she wasn't there to support Remus in a time of great need. She was an Auror--she knew she could be a great asset.
And she knew that her son was safe and cared for, and she was, I think fighting as much for his future in the same way Remus was. The fact that they both died is both sad and happy, but I am glad that they were able to embark on that next great adventure Emmy September 17th,4: I kind of agree, I just wish that she had taken more time out to develop it so it would have made more sense.
I especially thought the marriage was really really out of the blue. It did seem kind of to appear out of the blue I wish we could have more insight into their relationship PotterGurl08 September 17th,6: You know, I never quite looked at it that way.
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All this time I've been quite sad over Lupin and Tonk's death because I really liked them as characters and I just thought their story ended so sadly But when you look at it the way you say, it isn't so bad. It is quite happy. Thanks for the insight! I never said that Sirius and Remus would make a good pair I think Sirius and I would make a good pair: But if you see the amount of fan fiction there is about Remus and Sirius, it would stagger you.
And they have been around for a long time. I think I read one some seven years ago. Also it is reported that JK herself was none too happy about the slash shippers.
- Nymphadora Tonks
- Harry Potter
She has expressed her grief over some of the pairings like Draco and Harry and Snape and Sirius. Sure they would hypothetically make a good couple but Jk didn't sell that idea well to the readers I have to say that I agree. I know they say opposites attract, but I never really enjoyed reading about the romance as it certainly wasnt a happy one. She portrays and rocky and unstable romance and then ends it all by killing off both characters.
I think she could have showed remus return a bit more affection towards Tonks, instead of leaving the reader wondering whether Remus really loved Tonks or not. Even now I am still on the fence on whether Remus really loved Tonks and if he did, whether his feelings were as strong as hers.
This pairing has to be one of the most vague and incomplete romances of the entire series. I think you might have to share him, but I am sure that could be arranged, through some sort of time share agreement.
I've seen it, and it does shock me a bit the fact of it, not the pairing itselfbut then its just stories. The characters in these stories are never really the ones JKR created, as everyone has their own spin; but then all non canon fanfiction bemuses me.
She seems particularly savvy when it comes to managing the Potter brand. I figure they were put together: So that Teddy would mirror Harry, and yet be an antithesis to him, in that he had a happy childhood. Lillbet September 17th,6: I think they were friends and I think Tonks had a crush on Lupin.
I'm not convinced they were a couple before- Lupin is adept at worrying and navel-gazing, and it seemed to me that he was entirely too caught up in the business of freaking out over what his "disease" would do to her that he never allowed himself to enjoy a relationship. I think that they probably worked together for awhile- perhaps they bonded a bit after the fight at the Ministry?
I don't think he did. As I said above- I think he was far too concerned about what his "furry little problem" love that bit would do and the repercussions it would have in terms of a relationship that he wasn't able to return her affection.
In general, also, I got the feeling Tonks was one of those very stubborn, persistent types. My impression, while reading, is that she loved him much more than he her and that it was in her nature to get all worked up about things. One thing I really loved about DH is that Rowling pulled back the curtain, sts, on each character and let you really see them for what they were.
From the beginning of the series Lupin came across as pitiable, morose, rootless, smart and funny, calm and fearless, but at the same time so sad.
In DH he was revealed to be more human- his fear of attachment to Tonks, his fear of letting people down, his need to prove himself worthy were all brought to the fore. Tonks- well, I still never got enough of a sense of her to really understand or like her well enough. She was a mess o' flaws- kind of the embodiment of love and romance. True love is about accepting another person's shortcomings and seeing them for what they truly are.
Tonks accepted Lupin- almost as wholly as Sirius had when he was a kid- and I think that both attracted and repelled him.
He clearly accepted her love, finally, but whether it truly made him happy wasn't entirely clear it may have said so in the text, but I just didn't get that impression.
There is no way to stop fans from writing whatever they want. Even now they would write an alternative universe story where Sirius and Remus were still alive and Tonks moved to the Bahamas. I also agree that JKR's purpose was to show a mirror of Harry, she said as much in an interview.
She would know that nothing she wrote could ever stop the shippers. It was also kind of cool for Remus to experience a romantic relationship and marry considering all he'd been through during life.
From his viewpoint and the readers it would be quite unexpected. Beatifically September 18th,1: A lot of people were really shocked by their relationship, but I wasn't. When I first heard of their relationship after OotP I wasn't surprised. All in OotP they seem to be around each other! Since they had so many moments together, naturally they fell in love.Remus x Tonks -- As Long As You're There
Even though there are some canon ships, that won't stop fans! I don't think that the pair was created so they could have a baby, be killed, and then have Teddy mirror Harry. I'm not sure why she chose them to get together, but she decided to unexpectedly kill them off while writing for DH, so we now it wasn't because of Teddy.
I've thought of some more questions! And if you guys want to ask some, feel free. How do you think they were different? Affectionate, strict, etc use your imagination! But I don't think she originally created them to die either. But maybe she came up with the idea of Teddy during DH: I understand what you are saying but why would Remus tell three teenagers that he doesn't necessarily love his wife?
I am sure he cared about Harry but they were never close. Their relationship was that of a favorite teacher and his student and nothing more So if Remus didn't love Tonks again I am not saying that he didn't he wouldn't tell that to Harry.
I never said that they don't love each other I am just saying that JK never gave us enough reason to root for them as a couple. I just can't believe them as a couple. In the same way I can't believe that Remus and Harry would suddenly forge an intimate relationship which they sort of did in the last book It felt surreal that all of a sudden Harry would fight with Remus and suddenly they have become as close as Sirius and Harry I know that there are a lot of Remus Lupin fans out there seeing as I am one of them: Well Tonks was his wife, and given the intended audience for these books, I don't think JKR would have ever put a distinctly turbulent, uneven, aloof, and raked with angst marriage into her books.
I mean seriously what a way to speed up, the inevitable, growth of cynicism in children. I really just thought that Remus was like an uncle to Harry: They had a more adult relationship in DH, which is inevitable given Harry's age and growth in maturity. However, I figure had Lupin lived, it would have developed into a fruitful and mature friendship.
I respect your impression from the reading, however, I feel like the Remus and Harry one has been developing since POA. It was certainly a lot less obvious than his with Sirius, but Sirius had no reservations about getting close to people; I think that made a difference because his feelings about others were more obvious. Maybe Remus and Harry's relationship was more obvious to me because I tuned in so much on Remus, lol.
I didn't mind Tonks and Remus at all because I thought it was great for Remus to have a relationship and marriage and a child during his life albeit it for just a short while.
It kind of completed his tale. And it still ended up how I wanted in the end, I thought JKR wrote a genius of a tale with his character and the inclusion of Tonks was great. I don't think J. Harry looked at Sirius like a father Lupin, at that moment in Grimmauld Place, was being very honest with them and he think he respected and trusted Harry enough to tell him if he didn't love Tonks.
I don't think of love in terms of Harry loving his Dad more than Sirius more than Remus more than Fred, etc. I think Harry loved many people and each uniquely based on the interactions and relationship he had with them.
For example, did Harry love Hermione or Ginny more? Well the answer is imo that he loved them both, but in a way unique to them.
The same was true with Lupin.
Welcome to the Great Hall
He loved Sirius, James, Harry and Molly and more each in a special way that was unique to them. And he loved Tonks too in a special way unique to his relationship with her. Lillbet September 18th,5: I couldn't put my finger on it at first, but I felt the same way. It seemed as though Lupin was meant to fill the void left by Sirius, but that there was a lot of history and build-up that was just plain left out.
It's the same with Lupin and Tonks- we never see them happy together until the very end, so it was a bit awkward to be asked to believe that they were a couple.
Of course, Harry doesn't see everything that's happening, but at the same time he does see a great deal. One could argue that Lupin and Harry became close in PoA and GoF, but that didn't imo lead to the sudden closeness they shared here. Also the way he was so worried about how his marriage to her had ruined her life.
If his feelings towards her had not temporaily overidden his reservations then he would not have married her. Also, why would Arthur, Molly etc. I seriously doubt that everyone would encourage a relationship that either wasn't there or would be one-sided.
I doubt Lupin saw it, but sometimes, an outsider's view is essential. Harry didn't see it until the end of HBP.
I would say it was Harry's nature as written. And yet, he loved him very much. Harry was with Remus more time overall than he was with Sirius, so it wasn't surprising to me that they would develop a relationship.
I agree we as readers were forced along in both cases - but we just have to figure that we didn't see everything. We know here were times when we were not shown things; there were times Harry was just 'with Sirius' at the house Christmas and we don't know what went on.
We'd go from one day to the next and in a sentence JKR would narrate that 'the end of Christmas arrived'. So one has to assume that during those times Harry got closer with both Remus and Sirius. At some point Harry stopped calling Remus 'professor Lupin', as did Hermione - when did that happen? We didn't see it - we can only suspect it was in HBP when they were together at the house.
We never saw Harry give Sirius a hug or tell him he cared or loved him, but since the story ended up that way, we have to accept it happened for Harry - same with Remus. And in fact, same with Tonks Tonks and Remus' relationship was completely off page and so it too could seem forced on the reader as were Ginny and Harry - but we just have to accept that it evolved off page.
Do you think when Remus wanted to leave Tonks and
They certainly didn't go from holding hands at the funeral to married without speaking to one another merely because we didn't see it imo. Harry loved Arthur Weasley as well, but they had so little interaction that we saw, many would hardly credit it.
But the closeness that Harry felt for the Weasley parents was something else that we were to assume based on JKR's interview indicating that he did. But I think in the end that inter-relationships with the exception of the trio was not the focus of the book.
It would have taken an extra pages per book to develop all of the relationships we saw formed and that would have changed the character of the series. Still, imo, while much was left up to our imagination, it was nice that couples like Tonks and Remus and Harry and Ginny got together and that Harry attained a closeness with various individuals in the background.
For me it just made the story richer. But we did not see much of Bill and Fluer either in any of the books Yet in the sixth book when Fluer holds on to Bill even though he is severely injured It made me root for that couple and love them.
But when Tonks screamed only moments later at Remus I was rather taken aback. I was like "where did this come from" and I couldn't connect with them no matter how hard I tried. It was sort of forced and surreal. It came out of nowhere and made no sense to me. Yes he was like a distant uncle that Harry respected and nothing more Therefore the way they talked to one another in the seventh book felt very out of place Like someone practicing lines for some play.
They seemed to play parts Yet in the sixth book when Fluer holds on to Bill even though he is severely injured made me connect with that couple Therefore the way they talk to one another in the seventh book felt very out of place Like someone was practicing lines for some play.
I understand what you mean. I guess my imagination is always ready to fill in the blanks because I read so much fantasy. So I could easily move along with what JKR was doing. You love Sirius, so it was likely very easy for you to fill in any blanks as you read - but when I first read POA and then OOTP, I was shocked to find out at the end that Harry was so fond of him - they had just not been together much at all.
But I just went with the flow. On re-reading I allowed myself to see things slightly differently, knowing that there are feelings developing that on the original read I did not allow for. Bill and Fleur may have captured you due to the circumstances, but others may have seen that the same way you see Remus and Tonks. I mean we had only just heard about them at the start of the book - but they may have been dating for a while.
Others loved the idea of Ginny and Harry and had lots of time to develop the story in their heads - but if you didn't really care about that particular love story one way or the other like meobjectively, there was terribly little written between them and nothing to go on except imagination.
Yet, I went with the flow and just assumed that everyone's feelings were moving along as JKR indicated. But I do understand how the relationships could all seem forced and out of no where - I mean, I don't really recall Harry speaking to Arthur directly more than 3 times, but according to JKR he loves him too.
So, we just have to imagine: But the relationship between Harry and Sirius was intense I am sure that I didn't imagine it: I don't usually disagree with you ok I never disagree with you: